"...it's not the training to be mean but the training to be kind that is used to keep us leashed best." ~ Black Dog Red

"In case you haven't recognized the trend: it proceeds action, dissent, speech." ~ davidly, on how wars get done

"...What sort of meager, unerotic existence must a man live to find himself moved to such ecstatic heights by the mundane sniping of a congressional budget fight. The fate of human existence does not hang in the balance. The gods are not arrayed on either side. Poseiden, earth-shaker, has regrettably set his sights on the poor fishermen of northern Japan and not on Washington, D.C. where his ire might do some good--I can think of no better spot for a little wetland reclamation project, if you know what I mean. The fight is neither revolution nor apocalypse; it is hardly even a fight. A lot of apparatchiks are moving a lot of phony numbers with more zeros than a century of soccer scores around, weaving a brittle chrysalis around a gross worm that, some time hence, will emerge, untransformed, still a worm." ~ IOZ

Dec 8, 2010

Dialogue, truncated

Simon: I think we need to reexamine our Christianity. It's not a perfect thing, but we must engage the world in a manner in which people come to understand the necessity, or the desirability of it. Situations change, and we have to adapt to them. How we relate to the world must reflect the situation in which we find ourselves. I think, therefore, we should make sure as many people as possible have access to the images and stories of Vishnu, so that they can better understand their own transformations and experiences.

Thomas: Vaishnavism isn't Christianity.

Saul: Is it even possible to be Christian, Thomas? Why don't you prove your Christianity, pony boy?

Thomas: I'm just saying that you can worship Vishnu and Jesus at the same time, but your faith in Vishnu sort of negates your claim to Christianity.

Saul: The Christian vision is not practicable, so why don't you just grow up?

Thomas: That may very well be true, and I probably still have more growing up to do, but I think it's curious that Simon calls his Vaishnavism Christianity, when it's not. Whether or not Christianity is all one thing, or can have different interpretations, I'm not sure the worship of Vishnu can actually qualify as Christian.  Christianity has varied over the ages, but its practice depends upon a clear, almost universally exclusive relationship to the Christ. Vaishnaivism does not. A Hindu who worships Vishnu as his primary god can still believe in Shiva, and the Christ. The Christian who worships Vishnu, especially as a means of supposedly spreading the good news of Christianity, or because the environment is not suited to Christian practices, ceases to be one, no?


Randal Graves said...

The pertinent question is, who would win a steel cage match, Jesus or Vishnu?

Jack Crow said...


AlanSmithee said...

Any way you slice it, monotheism sucks.

Jack Crow said...

Alan, since I've crafted a complete shadow cave fail (yeah for me!), I'll go off the rails:

I'm actually kinda okay with the antinomian and Anabaptist stuff. If God has to be an avenging motherfucker, he can at least kill off the rich.

Solar Hero said...

There's also the whole "Christ-as-avatar" schtick that Vivekenanda passed off in Chicago in '93... so all the hindu deities got a little Christ (or at least Christ Consciousness) in 'em...

AlanSmithee said...

I dunno, Jack. I've read a whoooole lot of Watchtowers and Jack Chick tracts and I don't remember any mention of anti-nomnomnomianism. I mean, what is that anyway? A theological argument against LOLCats?

Jack Crow said...

The Amish, Quakers and Anabaptists (a delightfully rough and ready bunch) as well as the Ranters, Levelers, BotFS, Berdyaevists, Catholic Workers and British religious particularists are or often were antinomians.

I'm reducing a really complex theological premise - but the word means "against the law."

Paul was a bastard rat fuck, but some of his writing is really usefully in justifying Christian opposition to all forms of terrestrial power.

And the German and Low Country Anabaptists - especially during the Peasants' War - were some righteous fire starters.



AlanSmithee said...

Yeah, that Melchior Hoffman was a srs party dude...