"...it's not the training to be mean but the training to be kind that is used to keep us leashed best." ~ Black Dog Red

"In case you haven't recognized the trend: it proceeds action, dissent, speech." ~ davidly, on how wars get done

"...What sort of meager, unerotic existence must a man live to find himself moved to such ecstatic heights by the mundane sniping of a congressional budget fight. The fate of human existence does not hang in the balance. The gods are not arrayed on either side. Poseiden, earth-shaker, has regrettably set his sights on the poor fishermen of northern Japan and not on Washington, D.C. where his ire might do some good--I can think of no better spot for a little wetland reclamation project, if you know what I mean. The fight is neither revolution nor apocalypse; it is hardly even a fight. A lot of apparatchiks are moving a lot of phony numbers with more zeros than a century of soccer scores around, weaving a brittle chrysalis around a gross worm that, some time hence, will emerge, untransformed, still a worm." ~ IOZ

Jul 22, 2010


"An Israeli man of Arab descent has been convicted of rape after allegedly duping a Jewish woman into having consensual sex with him. 

30-year-old Sabbar Kashur was sentenced to 18 months in prison on Monday after a Jerusalem court ruled he was guilty of rape by deception. According to the complaint filed by the woman, Kashur, an Arab living in East Jerusalem, introduced himself in September 2008 as a Jewish bachelor seeking a serious relationship. 

After the two met outside of a local grocery store, they had consensual sex shortly thereafter in a nearby building. When she found out that Kashur was Arab and not Jewish, the woman filed a criminal complaint for rape and indecent assault. Those claims were later changed to a formal charge of rape by deception as the result of a plea bargain arrangement. 

Judge Zvi Segal ruled that although not 'a classical rape by force,' Kashur had pursued the relationship through deception and under false pretenses -- and the woman would not have consented otherwise. 'If she hadn't thought the accused was a Jewish bachelor interested in a serious romantic relationship, she would not have cooperated,' Segal wrote in the ruling."



Do you call this rape?

Does a lie about one's "race" make one a rapist? Nationality doesn't even apply, here. The convicted party possesses Israeli citizenship. He just doesn't get to call himself a Jew, under Israeli law. His guilt therefore depends, according to the alleged victim and the law, upon his failure to properly disclose his socially constructed...


Does that mean he raped her?


OT - still thinking on replies for some of the comments in prior posts, below.


Anonymous said...

Remember what I said in the prior thread about deferring one's spiritual existence to superior authority? And how under times of pressured existence, the spiritual accession tends toward rabid fundamentalism?

Uh huh.

Interesting quasi-related note:


Andromeda said...

Rape? Not even close. (In the interests of full disclosure: I've been raped.)

"Rape by deception"---please, the woman consented to have sex with this man.

It never ceases to amaze me what some lawyers can accomplish. Turning "consensual sex" into "rape by deception."

*sigh* I don't even know what else to say about this other than I feel very sorry for the so-called "rapist" in this case...

Andromeda said...


Just for the record, not everyone who defers their own spiritual existence to superior authority turns toward rabid fundamentalism under times of pressured existence.

Personally I am not one to turn toward rabid fundamentalism (or "rabid" anything) when pressured.

...And I should know by now; I've been under immense pressure off and on for the last 17 years or so.

Yours in humility,

Anonymous said...

Andromeda, you are reading a context into my posted thought, and it's a context that I didn't intend. You should go review the original posted thought in the prior thread:


The point is not intended to be 100% infallible in every situation that any human being might consider "spiritual". The point relates to religion. I use the term "spiritual" in the classic sense, not in the New Age, Marianne Williamson sense.

I mean, there's all sorts of room to make Eckhart Tolle styled arguments about the "spirituality" of rocks and fossilized beetles preserved in amber. That's not the stuff I'm referring to, though.

Andromeda said...

Sorry, Charles, didn't mean to read anything into it that wasn't there or put words in your mouth. I was really just making a statement about myself, honestly.

My apologies.

I'll review your original post; my health has been on the rocks lately and my mind has been buzzing so I apologize for not having the mental stamina to review all the posts on the previous thread before posting my own thoughts here.

Yours in humility,

Anonymous said...

Was he actually looking for a serious relationship? He may have double-raped her on that count. From the statement about deception, any alleged lie that allegedly encouraged a seduction could constitute "rape by deception." I imagine this was about "seduction by Arab," but there's a spot in the grand gulag for us all, no?

Anonymous said...

No worries, Andromeda -- I was just being clear. I should have stuck with the term "religion," which is narrower in meaning. It definitely wasn't unreasonable for you to see "spirituality" more broadly than I intended.

I can understand what you were saying because I am not a religious person myself, and in fact, in times of pressure, I tend to be more self-reliant, not more likely to give myself or my authority over to others.

I think that division depends on the person. What I was talking about really was the status of Israel, how it is under pressure now, and how its response to that pressure --both real and its own imagined, paranoia-based, self-imposed pressure-- is to be more narrow and fundamentalist in the interpretation of "Israeli." Since Israel is a religiously based nation, it's hard for me to imagine Israel's position being unrelated to its religiosity.

That's the long-form version of what I was trying to say above in shorthand.

Andromeda said...


Thanks for the clarification. :-)

Sticking with the term "religion" probably would have been more precise as I do not consider myself "religious" but rather "spiritual"---I know that's so tired and cliché these days but it's the truth.

In times of pressure I am also more self-reliant and less likely to give myself or my authority to others.

Yes, the status of Israel is definitely one that is founded on "religion" and not "spirituality"---you can clearly see its rabid fundamentalism in how it has responded to pressure from outside entities.

Israel's position is intricately tied to its religiosity---but at the same time there are many Jews (particularly younger ones) who see Israel's right-wing extremist policies for what they are. These are peaceful people who are simultaneously religious (Jewish) and humanistic.

drip said...

Egads! "Oh, baby, I love you" may be a little harder to prove as a deceit, perhaps, but it is the same idea, at least outside of a lunatic theocracy. As a crime, "rape by deceit" may be closer to larceny after trust than non-consensual penetration. Either way, Israel must be a very safe place to take up the time of a judge, prosecutor, and sundry police officers.

Anonymous said...

As a crime, "rape by deceit" may be closer to larceny after trust than non-consensual penetration.

Bueno, drip!

Jack Crow said...

Good discussion, here.